BERLIN — The office on the seventh floor of the Chancellery still feels a bit empty. Friedrich Merz (CDU), the newly elected chancellor, has been on the move constantly during his first days in office. On the wall next to his desk hangs a large photograph of Zikim Beach, in southern Israel. It used to hang in his Bundestag office.
DIE ZEIT: Mr. Chancellor, you’ve been in office for a week now. How does it feel? How are you doing?
Friedrich Merz: [laughs] To be honest, I don’t really know yet.
For the latest news & views from every corner of the world, Worldcrunch Today is the only truly international newsletter. Sign up here.
You’re the first chancellor not to be elected in the first round of voting. What does that mean for your chancellorship, and what does it mean for you personally?
It doesn’t mean much for the chancellorship. Compared to previous chancellors, the number of dissenters was actually quite small. I take it seriously that three people didn’t vote for me even in the second round. The other 15 were probably just a fluke. Our constitution and the Bundestag’s rules of procedure are set up for that kind of situation. And so was I. I discussed the possibility weeks ago with the Federal President and also with [Vice Chancellor and SDP co-leader] Lars Klingbeil. What matters is that this coalition [between the CDU/CSU and SPD] has a stable majority in parliament.
Were you ever worried you’d have to cancel your trip to Paris and Warsaw?
Not at all. I sent a text to [French President Emmanuel] Macron between the two rounds of voting and told him: second round. And he replied: Bonne chance!
Last Thursday, you spoke with U.S. President Donald Trump on the phone. What did you talk about?
He said congratulations and invited me to meet him at the White House. Then he told me his family was from Kallstadt near Bad Dürkheim. And I said, “I was stationed nearby, in the artillery.” I invited him. He thought that was a great idea.
Staying united on Ukraine
Did you also talk about Ukraine?
I told him I would be traveling to Kyiv the next day with Emmanuel Macron, [Polish Prime Minister] Donald Tusk, and [UK Prime Minister] Keir Starmer, and that we should do everything we can to stay united in the transatlantic alliance and act together. He agreed.
Then he called on Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to negotiate even without the ceasefire you had demanded. How do you deal with someone whose words have such a short shelf life, but whom you still need?
There are different negotiating styles in international politics, and I can handle them. Right now we’re witnessing a European awakening. We’re doing this for our own sake, not against someone else. [Then German Chancellor] Angela Merkel said in Munich in 2017 that we must take our destiny into our own hands. For too long, nothing came of that.
Do you have the impression that Trump is moving toward Russian President Vladimir Putin’s position in the Ukraine conflict?
No. President Trump, like the rest of us, wants the killing in Ukraine to stop. He understands that Putin has no real interest in that. In this debate, Trump is also thinking about the China-Taiwan conflict and asking what it would mean if Putin succeeded in Europe. He knows China is watching closely how the U.S. handles Ukraine.
The Russian government has rejected the ceasefire. You had announced new sanctions and further support for Ukraine in that case. What exactly does that mean?
We, the heads of state and government, agree that we must now explore every option. We are discussing further sanctions in the energy and banking sectors, as well as additional measures involving assets and individuals. We’re currently working on this with our European partners.
Including the confiscation of frozen Russian assets? So far, you’ve been skeptical.
That’s something we’re looking into. If there’s a way to mobilize those funds on solid legal grounds, we will do it. But we also have to be aware of the risks such a move poses for the European financial market.
Historical arguments are always part of the discussion
Do you agree that German soldiers are not conceivable in Ukraine for historical reasons?
That decision isn’t on the table right now. Historical arguments are always part of the discussion. But they can also lead to different conclusions.
Conversely, could you imagine Germany missing from peacekeeping efforts?
I want us, along with our European partners, to help provide security guarantees for Ukraine. I don’t want us to go it alone. The long-term strengthening of the Ukrainian military will be key. I’ll visit the growing German brigade in Lithuania next week to make it clear that we’re part of Europe’s and NATO’s efforts, and we are reinforcing NATO’s eastern flank and, by extension, protecting Ukraine.
As opposition leader, you once threatened to deliver Taurus missiles if the bombing of civilians didn’t stop. You criticized your predecessor, Chancellor Olaf Scholz, for holding back. Now you no longer want to talk publicly about individual weapons systems. Why the change?
I agree with the defense minister and the vice chancellor that we should no longer have open discussions about weapons. It’s not about hiding information from the public. It’s that these debates only help Putin and give him valuable insights. We’ll keep our promises and provide the military support that’s needed.
But that was already the case before.
My predecessor’s government forced those debates because they argued publicly about the issue. We’re not going to do that.
A new course
You started off as foreign minister.
It was important to me to be the first chancellor to visit Paris and Warsaw right away and on the same day, especially given the current security situation. But of course, most of my work focuses on domestic policy, on the economy and migration. Our society needs to come back together. That’s not just a slogan for me, it’s a central mission. It’s at the top of my list, and I’m fully aware of how difficult that will be.
Nowhere is the link between foreign and domestic clearer than in migration. If you follow through with your migration policy shift, you may alienate neighbors like Poland, which refuses to take back refugees from Germany.
We’re not getting rid of humanitarian asylum law. Children, women, and elderly people will still have special protection. But we do need to bring order to the entire refugee situation.
You have a cabinet with many ministers who have never governed before.
And a chancellor, too.
Was that a risk you took on purpose?
We’re pursuing a new course. That’s true. But we all have plenty of experience — political, business and life experience. And we have a well-functioning government apparatus and solid structures in place. Where’s the risk?
We make democracy stronger by governing effectively and delivering results.
The two major debt packages you’ve approved are meant to stimulate growth through more resilience and better defense. What can you do as chancellor to make sure that happens?
Take the arms industry and the healthcare sector. We’ve always seen both as problems, as burdens. I want to flip that thinking. If we’re serious about boosting our defense capabilities, we need to reduce our dependence on the U.S. — and fast. It’s not sustainable for two-thirds of our defense spending to keep going to American companies. More of that value needs to stay in Europe, not just Germany. Healthcare is the fastest-growing sector in our economy. We usually treat it as a cost problem, but rarely as a value driver. Look at BioNTech and CureVac. They went public in New York. That was a huge mistake. In the U.S., or even in France, that would have caused an uproar in politics and the public. In Germany, hardly anyone noticed.
Should the state have stepped in?
Yes, absolutely. I’ll make sure companies like that can stay and grow here.
You’ve said you’re a passionate European. Suppose there’s a conflict of interest between Europe and Germany — on migration, shared debt, or which defense firm to choose. Would you say: Germany first?
No, my criteria would be efficiency and added value. Who can deliver better results? We’re in competition even within Europe. The French might build better aircraft than we do, but we probably build better tanks. I am committed to German interests, but those are largely aligned with Europe’s interests. If Europe is doing well, so is Germany.
Saving German democracy
Your ally Bavarian State Premier and CSU leader Markus Söder says your government is “the last hope of democracy.” Do you see it as your mandate to save democracy?
We make democracy stronger by governing effectively and delivering results. This country has enormous strength, and we need to use it. We should be more ambitious, not just in terms of these so-called democracy programs. Should a state have to fund democracy for it to function? Democracy has to stand on its own. We all have a role to play.
You’ve made similar comments during the campaign. Doesn’t that make the far-right Alternative for Germany party (AfD) the measuring stick for how well you’re doing?
Before the election, I sometimes talked about this being the last chance, to sound the alarm a little louder about what’s coming from the AfD. We all have to admit: Over the past eight years, we haven’t managed to shrink that party. [CDU parliament member] Jens Spahn, with what he said about the AfD…
… that they should be treated like any other opposition party …
… not entirely wrong. He said: Let’s stop fixating on the AfD and focus on doing our jobs well. It’s a balancing act, yes. But if I spend every day paralyzed by fear that democracy might fall tomorrow, I’ll never sleep. We want to build stability, trust and confidence. The AfD and the Left Party are both anti-system forces. They question whether our system still works. We’re going to prove that it does.
I’ve always been skeptical about banning political parties.
The Federal Office for the Protection of the Constitution recently labeled the AfD a confirmed right-wing extremist group. Are you convinced by the evidence?
I’m not happy with how this process has been handled. The old government released a report without proper review, and it’s classified. The AfD is suing. I don’t know what’s in the report, and frankly, I don’t want to know until the Interior Ministry has evaluated it.
When do you expect that to happen?
It’ll take a few weeks or months.
And until then, you won’t say anything about a potential ban?
I’ve always been skeptical about banning political parties. That kind of thing smacks too much of eliminating your competition.
Has the CDU found its footing yet in the battle of ideas between conservatism and authoritarianism?
Not yet. That’s why we want to have a serious, level-headed discussion this summer in the party. How do we deal with this? How do we stop the AfD from winning a state premiership next year? At least we’ve prevented a party like the AfD from coming to power in February 2025, unlike other countries in Europe and around the world.
Have you already made the personal shift from opposition leader to Father of the Nation?
Father of the Nation may sound nice, but it has a bit of a pompous tone to it. That’s not really my image. This government works for all 84 million people in Germany. That’s my message. I won’t leave my political convictions at the chancellery door, but I’m not just the CDU leader who occasionally stops by the chancellery. I’m the Chancellor of Germany, who sometimes visits party headquarters.
