HAMBURG — To him, Leo used to be Bob. Father Lukas Schmidkunz has known the new pope for many years. The pontiff is also an Augustinian and served as the order’s Prior General, the top position, from 2001 to 2013. Schmidkunz currently leads the German province of the order. He still finds it hard to believe that his old colleague is now the Vicar of Christ. He is sitting in the Augustinian monastery in Würzburg when we connect for a video call. We speak about Leo’s sense of humor and his hobbies, his fondness for mule rides and his thoughts on pageantry, and about the kind of man this pope really is.
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DIE ZEIT: Father Lukas, what was your reaction when the pope stepped out onto the balcony last Thursday?
Father Lukas Schmidkunz: When the white smoke rose shortly after 6 p.m., I got curious. I went into the TV room with some of my fellow brothers here, in Würzburg. When the Cardinal Protodeacon announced the new pope’s real name, we were, well, how can I put it, not just surprised and astonished but speechless.
Were you shocked?
I wouldn’t say shocked, but yes, there was a moment when we said, “What? Bob won?” It just felt so unlikely. We knew his name had come up in some circles, but we never really thought it would happen. We were baffled, stunned.
Why?
Someone steps out in white robes in St.Peter’s Square and you suddenly realize it’s your brother, someone you know in a black habit or just regular clothes. Seeing him like that changes everything. It really hits you.
Now you have to call him “Holy Father.“
Someone asked me today if I still call him by his first name, because among us Augustinians, we use first names. So to me, he was always Robert, or just Bob. Even when he was a cardinal. But now he’s the Pope, so I guess that changes things.
Maybe Leo will come visit.
I doubt I’ll be seeing him anytime soon [laughs].
When I saw the new pope on the balcony, he looked like he was holding back tears.
That was my impression, too.
Maybe he was overwhelmed, himself.
You could see how deeply it all affected him.
After his election, Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) said he felt a weight placed on his shoulders during the conclave. He even prayed that God would spare him the office. This is one of the most difficult jobs in the world, isn’t it?
That’s true. But I believe the new pope is someone who can carry that weight.
Reserve, humility and a sense of humor
What makes you feel that way?
He’s an Augustinian, after all. We are a communal order, and we work together, which helps keep any one person from being overwhelmed. An Augustinian doesn’t operate solo. We are a strong community and we support one another. Even when Leo XIV became our Prior General, and later bishop and cardinal, he kept that sense of belonging. I believe he can bring people close to him who will shoulder things with him and for him.
He was your superior for a while. Do you remember your first meeting?
Not exactly. It’s a bit blurry. But he visited Germany several times while he was Prior General from 2001 to 2013. I remember that clearly. He would speak with individual brothers just as a fellow member of the order, to learn about how we lived and worked in Germany. I wasn’t the order’s Provincial back then. When I became Provincial, we did meet again in Rome.
What kind of person is Pope Leo XIV?
He never came in saying, “Now that I’m here, let me tell you how things should be.” He would say, “Let me share in your life. What are your responsibilities? How do you approach people? How do you bear responsibility?” He’s not the type who barges in with all the answers. He listens, observes, and understands before acting. And then, when something does need a decision, he makes it.
I do hope he lets the seeds of reform planted under Francis continue to grow.
He seemed a bit shy on the balcony.
I would say he carries himself with a calm reserve.
He seems like the opposite of Pope Francis, who was impulsive and spontaneous.
Leo XIV is not a showman. I heard that as a cardinal, when crossing St. Peter’s Square, he didn’t take the most direct route. He would stay under the colonnades. He never sought the spotlight. He simply did what needed to be done, with quiet humility.
Does he see himself as American? European? Peruvian? He didn’t even speak his native English on the balcony.
He did speak English on Friday in the Sistine Chapel, at the start of his homily during mass with the cardinals. He’s multilingual. He even speaks some German. When he visited here, he didn’t need a translator. I’m not sure how he sees himself, but I get the sense that his heart and soul are still in Peru, where he served as bishop and earlier as a missionary. But of course, he can’t hide his American roots. He speaks clear, pleasant English, and I’ve always found him easy to understand.
Is he funny?
He has a lovely sense of humor, and a bit of a mischievous smile. And I’ve heard some people think he’s a handsome pope.
Do you think he’ll challenge U.S. President Donald Trump?
I really don’t know. But he strikes me as someone who would not find the president’s arrogance particularly appealing. U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance has a similar posture, and he has already called him out on X.
Father Lukas Schmidkunz. — Photo: Augustiner via Facebook
In the steps of Saint Augustine, Pope Leo XIII
What happened there?
Vance tried to interpret a quote from Saint Augustine, about how charity should be understood. Cardinal Prevost corrected him publicly. He was clear and firm, and he was right. Vance was way off. Leo XIV won’t shy away from speaking clearly and firmly when needed.
Do you think Leo XIV is open to people whose way of life the Church has traditionally disapproved of?
He’s been called moderately conservative, and I think that’s a fair description. He won’t charge ahead with revolutionary change, and no one should expect that. He won’t suddenly alter everything. But I do hope he lets the seeds of reform planted under Francis continue to grow. Leo isn’t a bold disruptor, and I doubt he’ll lead major shakeups. But he does respect people and their differences.
People are already calling him a good pastor with an ear for ordinary concerns.
He draws a lot from Saint Augustine. Augustine always responded to the issues of his time, and his answers were meant to support life, not block it. I can easily see Leo walking the same path.
His namesake, Leo XIII, who led from 1878 to 1903, was also a cautious conservative who tried to respond to the spirit of the times.
Leo XIII addressed the social question. At that point, the Church had nearly lost the working class, and he managed to build a bridge. Leo XIV could do something similar.
He’s not the type to blurt out an idea on the fly.
Still, it doesn’t look like the new pope will embrace Francis’s more modest approach to papal appearance. He wore the red mozzetta and the ornate stole that Francis rejected.
When Bob became a bishop, we looked at his photos and had the sense that he felt at ease in liturgical vestments. Same thing when he became a cardinal. Bob has an eye for beauty, but there are also pictures of him in ordinary street clothes, riding a mule through the Andes to visit people in his diocese.
He is trained in canon law. How might that help him as pope?
I saw him in 2019 at a plenary assembly of our order. During those sessions, questions about canon law came up suddenly in discussions, and he handled them with ease. He really knows canon law. Francis was more spontaneous. That won’t be the case with Leo. He’s not the type to blurt out an idea on the fly. He understands what is legally possible, and where the boundaries lie.
You could see he’s not very spontaneous, even from the fact that he brought notes onto the balcony. That has never happened before, not since TV broadcasts of the balcony began in 1939.
Like I said, when he speaks, it’s with care and thought.
Do you think he can deliver big, stirring speeches, like the ones we see at World Youth Day?
I believe he can. This pope will touch people’s hearts. He will move them.
