LE FIGARO: What are you asking French President Emmanuel Macron for? What do you expect from France?
Volodymyr Zelensky: Emmanuel Macron and I are in touch almost every day. There are decisive things happening today in Ukraine, and we cannot wait until the next meeting to discuss them. Our relationship goes well beyond what normally unites two presidents. What are we going to talk about? Concrete subjects. How best to support Ukraine, how to increase our drone production.
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All our allies recognize that in this area we have been quick and very productive. But we need to do even more. And above all, be inventive. Because we have less artillery and fewer shells than Russia. The Kremlin has kamikaze drones supplied by Iran, artillery and missiles supplied by North Korea.
Will you also be discussing European troops?
We will talk about contingents, of course. We must define our needs, know who is ready to send troops, what kind, how many, and where to deploy them. How many countries are really ready to do this? This is a difficult and important subject. Some countries do not have the capacity. Others are ready to act but only with American security guarantees. On Wednesday, the bilateral discussion with Emmanuel Macron will be dedicated to military, diplomatic, political and perhaps even strategic questions, as we will consider how to make peace possible. On Thursday, security guarantees will be discussed.
What security guarantees do you need from Europeans?
We first need financial guarantees. We would like frozen Russian assets to be used to equip our army. Because a strengthened and strong Ukrainian army will be our greatest guarantee of security. We also need contingents. Finally, we need air defenses. The Americans have them. We discussed this matter with Donald Trump. But if the Americans do not provide us with this system, we will have to see with the Europeans what similar means they could deliver to us so we can fully close our airspace.
On victory
Do you still believe in victory? How can it be achieved? On whom and on what does it depend?
One thing is certain: We will never cede our occupied territories to Russia. These lands belong to Ukrainians. When will we get them back? Probably not right away. This may need to be done diplomatically. Diplomacy causes fewer casualties, it causes fewer losses than weapons. What is our definition of victory? We created and consolidated our independence. But that’s not enough. Because the war is not over. When it is over and we have security guarantees strong enough to prevent it from resuming, we will be able to congratulate ourselves on having already succeeded in safeguarding our identity, our independence and our sovereignty. We did it thanks to our people, our close allies and partners, and of course our military.
When you are at war, I promise you, you can feel that hatred.
But you know, it’s difficult to talk about victory in the middle of a war, because every Ukrainian family has lost someone or something. Only history books can speak of true victory. For families, those who have lost a son, a brother, a husband, the only real victory would be to bring them home. But that’s impossible. Today, victory means saving our nation, our independence. It means having the freedom to not belong to Russia or its worldview. Freedom, for us, is not just a simple word. We want to be able to decide how we live, with whom, and who we want to love. These are simple words, but they define our right to live the way we want. Every morning, we want to know that Ukrainians are free and the day belongs to them.
What has kept you going since the start of the war?
It’s hard to say. It is daily motivation. But it’s not always that simple. Sometimes what keeps me going are the global stakes. I want our children and our grandchildren to live in a free world. A free world in Ukraine, not elsewhere, not in Europe. Because for all people, the country of birth is the best country. We all want to live where our parents lived, where we were born, where our house was built.
The second motivation is hatred of the Russians who killed so many Ukrainian citizens. I know that in times of peace, it is not polite to use this word. But when you are at war, when you see soldiers entering your territory and killing innocent people, I promise you, you can feel that hatred.
My third motivation is simply dignity. That of our country and its inhabitants. And I too want to be able to live with my family in Ukraine. Ukraine is my land; it is where my home is. And you know, when you see all the Ukrainians who have paid the ultimate price at the front, giving their lives to defend our freedom, the question of motivation no longer really arises.
On Trump
What exactly happened in the Oval Office? What is your interpretation of the confrontation?
You saw it yourself in the video. Nothing else happened. Later, no doubt, we will understand better, we will be able to interpret every detail. But that takes time. I don’t want to speculate on the reasons for the confrontation. I simply wanted to show the Americans the true face of the Russians, what they were doing in Ukraine.
Putin is Putin and will remain so.
I wanted to set the record straight and push back against Russian propaganda which falsely claimed, for example, that Ukrainian troops were surrounded in Kursk. I wanted to share reliable information and verified facts to show Donald Trump the true face of Russia. I wanted to prove to him that Putin does not want to stop the war. Because he loves war, he plays with it like a child with a toy. His goal is to destroy Ukraine as an independent country, to prevent it from being free and from choosing its alliances. Putin is a liar. He constantly plays with war. But for us, it is not a game, it is a tragedy.
This episode could have broken the unity between Europe and the United States. Then this would have been a big success for the Russians.
How do you explain Trump’s complacency toward Putin, for whom he has nothing but praise, and his harshness toward you, whom he treats with contempt?
It is a difficult question to answer. Donald Trump’s interest is to end this war as quickly as possible. We all wish the same thing. But stopping this war means stopping Putin. Not someone else, no – stopping Putin. Some diplomats really tried to work things out but they made a lot of mistakes in trying to maintain good relations with him, in trying to create an atmosphere that was conducive to negotiations. But Putin is Putin and will remain so. He understands what you want from the very first second. He only backs down when faced with strong men. You have to be strong to force someone to end their war. Donald Trump tried to create good diplomatic relations with Russia. But this kind of method doesn’t work with a man like Putin. Offering to reduce sanctions in exchange for concessions on his part? That won’t work. Putin is not a grateful man. If Donald Trump eases sanctions against Russia, the only conclusion for him is that he is a weak president and that therefore he is free to move to the next stage. Putin lives under pressure 24 hours a day. There is no opposition in Russia. Neither in the Kremlin nor outside the Kremlin. For 25 years, his goal has been to preserve and consolidate his power. He has done so by killing his opponents. But also by dividing Europe and the United States and by dividing Europeans among themselves. Because he cannot fight everyone. He would lose. And if he loses, he also loses his power, his Kremlin.
On dragging on
Do you still see a scenario where Trump realizes that Putin does not want peace and ends up opposing him?
I hope so! In Saudi Arabia, we accepted an unconditional ceasefire. Vladimir Putin did not. It was the first signal that Putin did not want the war to end. Then we said “yes” to a partial agreement and made compromises. But it is always Putin who is blocking. Russian leaders live in their own world. They don’t want to recognize that they have neighbors. There are enough examples today to understand that Putin does not want to stop the war before Ukraine has accepted all his conditions and lost its independence.
I can confirm that Putin is trying to buy time and is preparing for a spring offensive.
Do the Jeddah negotiations have a chance of succeeding, or will they drag on indefinitely? Do you believe that Putin is using them to buy time and prepare a new attack against Ukraine? Do you have any indications that he is preparing a spring offensive?
A success in Jeddah will be a success for us. Every time Ukrainians can prove that they want peace – like the United States – while Russia refuses it, strengthens our thesis that the Kremlin does not want peace. This is very important because the United States will realize it. As will other countries in Asia and Latin America, which claimed that Putin was ready for an unconditional ceasefire but that the Ukrainians were not. I can also confirm that Putin is trying to buy time and is preparing for a spring offensive. We can see the preparations for this future operation. We have shared our intelligence with our allies. We must look at the situation with eyes wide open: Putin is preparing a new offensive, notably in Sumy and the Kharkiv region. He already wanted to launch this operation eight months ago, but we prevented him from doing so thanks to our intervention at Kursk. That is why today he needs time.
On handling the war on a human level
Is this the most difficult moment since the start of the war?
No. The most difficult time was the first month of the war. When we fought not to lose everything: our independence, our freedom, our capital, our country. Today, we are stronger. Our army is better equipped. We have air defense, trained brigades. Vladimir Putin knows all that. Even if he tries to say that he has achieved great military victories this year. True, Russian forces seized 3,000 kilometers – it’s not nothing. But the human cost of obtaining them has been gigantic.
If you were in front of Putin right now – no cameras, no microphones – what would you say to him?
Lots of things. But I can’t tell you because you have a microphone!
Do you ever have doubts? And if so, who do you turn to for advice?
I think everyone has doubts. Because we are human. When that is the case, I let myself be guided by values and laws. I ask myself what is good for Ukraine and for the people. But I don’t doubt in difficult situations. Like all presidents, I of course have many advisors. My wife has become one of the best. But the most useful, in hard times, are the people I talk to on the street. Their recommendations are sometimes better than those of my advisors.
Are you still the same man as at the beginning of the war? What have you learned from it? Are there any positive lessons?
There are few, if any, positive lessons to be learned from war. But you gain experience, yes. I have learned a lot from Ukrainians on the street and also from foreign leaders.
Do you fear for your life?
It’s my bodyguards who should be afraid! Because if I die, they will lose their jobs! But they are professionals! I refuse to let myself be overwhelmed by that question.
Do you feel betrayed by Europeans, whose promises have been slow to materialize?
Never give someone the opportunity to betray you. Never show your weaknesses. That’s my motto, drawn from my experience since the start of the war. If you let the other person think that you are not that strong, that’s when you start to see the signs of betrayal coming. As for Europe, it has never been as strong with Ukraine. Europeans know that from now on they can rely only on themselves. It’s difficult. But this is not the Apocalypse. Europe is capable of it. It is strong and intelligent. It has many assets: history, education, cultural wealth and an attachment to freedom. It must not be afraid of Russia. That doesn’t mean it has to go to war, no. But it shouldn’t be afraid. And it must not give in to Putin. Because once again, if you are weak, you get eaten.
